Sarah Michelle Lamoureux
posted 3/30/08 @ 10:30 PM MST
Matt, I can definitely see your point. And I do think that there are great friendships to be made in class, that can be explored. Dating has many different aspects to it, and there cannot be just one blanket rule. But, there are principles that should be followed during dating, and I offered a principle that I know makes dating more successul and enjoyable. My article addresses dating in the classroom, but I hoped that people recieved the deeper message. The principle I am talking about is patience, which is so crucial in dating. A real relationship takes time to develop. I think there's a tendency to panic because people may think "There's no time! We're all busy college students- and if it doesn't happen this semester, and if I don't ask her out now, then it will never happen!". Then "the game" starts: He asks her out, she says yes. There really is no connection point except that they are in the same class, but that's okay, she's cute and they'll get to know eachother more on the date, right? But how 'real' are people on the first date? Well- First date goes great, and there are plans for a second date. Here's where it gets iffy: He calls her to make plans, but she can't. She has a paper that she just has to write. He's a little put off because he's wondering if that's the real reason she said no- the paper could be a clever excuse. Then the next weekend, he calls again, but she has to turn him down again, because she's already made plans (she is, after all, still single). Now, he's just given up. Two tries is enough.. There was another girl in the study group he had his eye on, so things get awkward between him and girl #1, and he moves on to girl #2. I see this time and time again, some variations, but generally the same! We've all been through it- And why? Because there is a tendency to disregard a firm base of friendship first. We trick ourselves into thinking that it's okay, because dating is what we're supposed to do- that dating is to get to know the person. I agree with that to an extent.. I feel that dating is to get to know a person BETTER. But how do we know when it's not too late, or too soon to ask? When there are a few more conversations, a few run-ins around campus.. when you've had a chance to see her interact with others, and have a general idea of what she's like. Something a little more substantial than 'she's cute and laughs at my jokes.. yeah, this could really go somewhere!'. This is dangerous thinking, yet it happens more than a lot of people care to admit. There has to be a few more conversations. No games. If you study with the person, then get to know them and build that friendship with them. No hidden motives- and that's something I address in my article as well. That the Game is what first destroys a relationship before it begins. It's starting on false pretenses. I think it's great to enjoy another's company. I don't mean to imply to cross the girl off the dating list completely if she's in the same class; I imply merely to stop- and think. Enjoy your time, and enjoy the semester. Think how well the first date will go when you've been able to experience so much together! There will also be an understanding that has developed. You know you don't have to panic when she turns you down for a date- because you already have a script for her personality, you're more accepting of a decline, even though it's still hard. I hope I've cleared up a few questions on this matter. I don't mean to cause any restrictions in dating, because it's all very personal and individual- It should always be used at the individual's discretion. If anything, I hope people learn from my article that dating should never be a game. Games last only a short time, and it implies there's a winner and a loser. But dating can be a win-win situation, and a very good learning experience, not to mention one can come away with a best friend in the end. All it takes is the practice of patience and understanding. Cheesy, I know.. but it works, and it's an honest way we can all abide by.
Of course we are still friends!:) haha I enjoy a good conversation. If you have any more questions please feel free to email me, or call;) Sarahmichelle318@yahoo.com ps. Thank you for the article, as well. I hope I didn't come across as a feminist who hates men, and I'm a really depressed person who wants to spread misery across SUU campus. haha
30 March, 2008
Then I recieved this reply to my post from my good friend Matt Johnson. I really appreciate a good debate! I'm so glad someone commented on my article:)
... And In my next post I'll show my reply.
Matthew Johnson
posted 3/27/08 @ 9:55 AM MST
Smeesh, I don't understand the point of your article. Are you saying people should rule out dating their classmates? That just because a girl is in my class, I should cross her off as a potential date? I'm sorry but I think that is a ridiculous idea. College is an opportunity to pursue "higher education" but what is "higher education"? If you think higher education comes from text books and peer reviewed journals, well I respectfully disagree. (I hope I can explain myself clearly on this one...) Pursuing a major and a degree are noteworthy goals, but that is not what college is about! When I talk with people in the work world there seems to be a general attitude that a degree is just a piece of paper that shows some measure of qualification (how much the qualification is respected really varies from person to person.) In May I graduate with a degree in Human Nutrition. I've learned lots of wonderful things about Nutrition, Food Science, Chemistry, etc., but I wouldn't consider them the most important things I've learned at SUU. To me a "higher education" involves learning that you are part of a greater community that needs your support. The world is begging for your contribution, college is a chance to learn how you are capable of supporting that community and why you must! Part of your ability to support that community involves text books and research, but a greater portion of how you support your community depends on the way you treat other people, the family you hope to make, and your relationships with others. I've dated classmates and I confess I've organized study groups in hopes of getting to know girls better (Side note- this isn't always the motive! If your a girl, and you've been in a study group with me...don't jump to conclusions! ;)) Our study groups are filled with laughter and learning, we still get A's on our tests... so what's wrong with that? I look to date girls that share interests with me, what better place to look then in my classes? Where else do you expect me to go?! I think it's unwise to rule out a group of people as potential partners and lable it as a "professional move." As an example: Bro MacAffee used to prohibit dating in HOPE choir. He thought it would get in the way of their performances. A church leader told him he thought it was a bad idea to prohibit dating in any sort of a group... I was there when Bro Mac said "I don't agree with it, but I know to follow my leaders" At the end of that semester I think there were 4 couples engaged in HOPE Choir. I completely disagree with you (we are still friends though!) To say dating girls in your class is off limits just doesn't make sense to me. I'm sorry if some guy has tricked you into a study group and has had different motives, but spending time with the wrong guy isn't necessarily a bad thing (as long as respects you, if he doesn't respect you... get out of that situation!) It will help you develop people skills, learn to work with others, and sometimes being in the wrong situtation helps your recognize the right situation. I respect the fact that you are not pursuing a "MRS degree" but I fear that a lot of girls mix their priorities. I want to say this with as much sensitivity as possible... I imagine its very tough to be a girl and make the decisions you have to make (especially an LDS girl... do I pursue a mission? a career? a guy?? Those a extremely tough choices!) But I think it is a mistake for a girl to rule out dating or the chance for marriage while she is pursuing her degree (I know you aren't saying that, but its a point I want to make) Love is a crazy thing, you never know when you are gonna find it. Hopefully when it is found people will recognize that they should make appropriate sacrifices for it. Sometimes they might even have to sacrifice their life plans... it's a scary choice but I believe love will bring more happiness and satisfaction then a career. Anyway, I write too much... please read the following article, I think its worthwhile! http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2008/03/11/why_are_so_many_women_depressed_part_i
... And In my next post I'll show my reply.
Matthew Johnson
posted 3/27/08 @ 9:55 AM MST
Smeesh, I don't understand the point of your article. Are you saying people should rule out dating their classmates? That just because a girl is in my class, I should cross her off as a potential date? I'm sorry but I think that is a ridiculous idea. College is an opportunity to pursue "higher education" but what is "higher education"? If you think higher education comes from text books and peer reviewed journals, well I respectfully disagree. (I hope I can explain myself clearly on this one...) Pursuing a major and a degree are noteworthy goals, but that is not what college is about! When I talk with people in the work world there seems to be a general attitude that a degree is just a piece of paper that shows some measure of qualification (how much the qualification is respected really varies from person to person.) In May I graduate with a degree in Human Nutrition. I've learned lots of wonderful things about Nutrition, Food Science, Chemistry, etc., but I wouldn't consider them the most important things I've learned at SUU. To me a "higher education" involves learning that you are part of a greater community that needs your support. The world is begging for your contribution, college is a chance to learn how you are capable of supporting that community and why you must! Part of your ability to support that community involves text books and research, but a greater portion of how you support your community depends on the way you treat other people, the family you hope to make, and your relationships with others. I've dated classmates and I confess I've organized study groups in hopes of getting to know girls better (Side note- this isn't always the motive! If your a girl, and you've been in a study group with me...don't jump to conclusions! ;)) Our study groups are filled with laughter and learning, we still get A's on our tests... so what's wrong with that? I look to date girls that share interests with me, what better place to look then in my classes? Where else do you expect me to go?! I think it's unwise to rule out a group of people as potential partners and lable it as a "professional move." As an example: Bro MacAffee used to prohibit dating in HOPE choir. He thought it would get in the way of their performances. A church leader told him he thought it was a bad idea to prohibit dating in any sort of a group... I was there when Bro Mac said "I don't agree with it, but I know to follow my leaders" At the end of that semester I think there were 4 couples engaged in HOPE Choir. I completely disagree with you (we are still friends though!) To say dating girls in your class is off limits just doesn't make sense to me. I'm sorry if some guy has tricked you into a study group and has had different motives, but spending time with the wrong guy isn't necessarily a bad thing (as long as respects you, if he doesn't respect you... get out of that situation!) It will help you develop people skills, learn to work with others, and sometimes being in the wrong situtation helps your recognize the right situation. I respect the fact that you are not pursuing a "MRS degree" but I fear that a lot of girls mix their priorities. I want to say this with as much sensitivity as possible... I imagine its very tough to be a girl and make the decisions you have to make (especially an LDS girl... do I pursue a mission? a career? a guy?? Those a extremely tough choices!) But I think it is a mistake for a girl to rule out dating or the chance for marriage while she is pursuing her degree (I know you aren't saying that, but its a point I want to make) Love is a crazy thing, you never know when you are gonna find it. Hopefully when it is found people will recognize that they should make appropriate sacrifices for it. Sometimes they might even have to sacrifice their life plans... it's a scary choice but I believe love will bring more happiness and satisfaction then a career. Anyway, I write too much... please read the following article, I think its worthwhile! http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2008/03/11/why_are_so_many_women_depressed_part_i
Classes for School, not Dating
So I am a published writer!
I had to turn in an assignment: an opinion about any topic, for my Thinking Critically Class. And I was actually published! Here it is: Published 3/27/08
I address dating in the classroom.
I've always wondered about the motives of the men on the dating prowl - men who skip class, possibly essential for graduation, for a lunch date with a pretty girl more fitting to their fancy.I'm sure I'm not alone in my reason in coming to college. Contrary to popular Utahn belief, my reason is not to earn my "MRS Degree." Instead, I seek a higher degree of education.The social scene is enjoyable, and I think that in order to truly succeed one must immerse themselves in the activities provided at college, networking and making life-long friends.
Going on dates is a privilege that I enjoy, and I always look forward to the adventures in starting relationships. The butterflies in the stomach; the awkward, unsure moment right before holding hands; and DTRs are common but special dating experiences. Even though dating is a good thing, and necessary to a lot of college students' personal happiness, there is one taboo place I feel a dating relationship should never begin: In class.
Classmates are co-workers. We work to better educate ourselves to make a difference in chosen fields of interest. We have a need to be efficient, we need a good work ethic to get the job (our assignments) done; as soon as we enter the room we get to work, listen and learn.I consider school like the office, and I wish to remain professional because eventually the quality of my education will lead me to my dream job.It is mean and calculating for a guy to ask for a girl's number under the presumption of studying for an exam, when in fact he wants to ask her out. It is a break of trust, and no one should feel obligation to work with someone so dishonest. (This is just as true for girls ... I have met some downright scheming women.)
There may be cases where one finds their soul mate in class. But, in the small chance that ever happens, it would be worth the few months of waiting to find out.First, determine if they are even worth waiting for, and that may change your whole perspective. She may be worth a Friday night, but is she worth a few months of dating and a plethora of awkward moments?
The crush may fade near the end of the semester anyway and you may be grateful for taking the opportunity to focus your efforts on a 3.7 GPA, and not your dazzling study partner.Please, do not jeopardize the education of yourself and your crush because you absolutely must have that get-to-know-you time.
I know more than a few guys who have underestimated the power of patience and have come on too strong and too fast, drowning girls with text messages and pointless phone calls that annihilate any inclination those girls may have had to date them.
So do everyone a favor and when in doubt, wait it out. Education depends on it.
Sarah Michelle Lamoureux is a sophomore nutrition major from Heidelberg, Germany. She can be contacted at sarahmichelle318@yahoo.com.
I had to turn in an assignment: an opinion about any topic, for my Thinking Critically Class. And I was actually published! Here it is: Published 3/27/08
I address dating in the classroom.
I've always wondered about the motives of the men on the dating prowl - men who skip class, possibly essential for graduation, for a lunch date with a pretty girl more fitting to their fancy.I'm sure I'm not alone in my reason in coming to college. Contrary to popular Utahn belief, my reason is not to earn my "MRS Degree." Instead, I seek a higher degree of education.The social scene is enjoyable, and I think that in order to truly succeed one must immerse themselves in the activities provided at college, networking and making life-long friends.
Going on dates is a privilege that I enjoy, and I always look forward to the adventures in starting relationships. The butterflies in the stomach; the awkward, unsure moment right before holding hands; and DTRs are common but special dating experiences. Even though dating is a good thing, and necessary to a lot of college students' personal happiness, there is one taboo place I feel a dating relationship should never begin: In class.
Classmates are co-workers. We work to better educate ourselves to make a difference in chosen fields of interest. We have a need to be efficient, we need a good work ethic to get the job (our assignments) done; as soon as we enter the room we get to work, listen and learn.I consider school like the office, and I wish to remain professional because eventually the quality of my education will lead me to my dream job.It is mean and calculating for a guy to ask for a girl's number under the presumption of studying for an exam, when in fact he wants to ask her out. It is a break of trust, and no one should feel obligation to work with someone so dishonest. (This is just as true for girls ... I have met some downright scheming women.)
There may be cases where one finds their soul mate in class. But, in the small chance that ever happens, it would be worth the few months of waiting to find out.First, determine if they are even worth waiting for, and that may change your whole perspective. She may be worth a Friday night, but is she worth a few months of dating and a plethora of awkward moments?
The crush may fade near the end of the semester anyway and you may be grateful for taking the opportunity to focus your efforts on a 3.7 GPA, and not your dazzling study partner.Please, do not jeopardize the education of yourself and your crush because you absolutely must have that get-to-know-you time.
I know more than a few guys who have underestimated the power of patience and have come on too strong and too fast, drowning girls with text messages and pointless phone calls that annihilate any inclination those girls may have had to date them.
So do everyone a favor and when in doubt, wait it out. Education depends on it.
Sarah Michelle Lamoureux is a sophomore nutrition major from Heidelberg, Germany. She can be contacted at sarahmichelle318@yahoo.com.
24 March, 2008
The First Day of True Adulthood
Okay, so I haven't gotten the call yet, and I'm just anxiously waiting.
It might not even come this week! Which would break my heart... slightly.
But I am looking forward to opening it, and hopefully opening it soon!
Thanks, Bob and Dad for the Birthday Present! I love it:)
Ooookkkay. Time to talk about what happened on the BIG 21 B-Day!
Grandma and Lorraine took Jessica and me out for lunch at Costa Vida's. The place has delicious food. Then I just did what anyone who just became an official 'Adult' does. I hung out. I decide to get my butt up for at least a little while, do some lunges in stretchy pants and whatnot...
So, I'm working out around 6pm because Lorin hadn't called me to settle a pick up time yet, and I am sweating up a slip and slide all over, and at 6:30 I get the call: "Can you be ready in 20 minutes?"
"Uh. Sure." -At this point I look at my sweat stained shirt.. and realize I'd better hop in the shower quick. Good thing I'd recently washed my hair...
So I get ready, and look all cute for our night out.
I come upstairs, and he's waiting (he's a little late, it's about 7:00 when he shows up.. but it's endearing, since he arrives just as I finish getting ready. It's perfect timing, is what it is.) with a cup of flowers. Daisies, my favorite. He's brought me flowers on all but the first date! last date he brought fake flowers. This time he brought 21 daisies in a cup-- the cup, because, let's face it..he's in college and it's just as good as a vase! haha and 21 is the obvious number..;) He explained that he couldn't find a bouquet with 21 flowers, so he bought a plant and cut them off! --pure genius.
Well, then we went outside where I got into his car, and there was a camera waiting. "We're going to document this night of debauchery".
Debauchery, if you bloggers are as unawares as I was of the meaning, I looked up on dictionary.com and it says:
1. excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures; intemperance.
2. Archaic. seduction from duty, allegiance, or virtue.
I think it fit perfectly into our night. and now there's evidence.. evidence to burn;)
Lorin took me to Mesquite. And there were many amazing moments that were had. Some too sensitive for the public eye.
So, I will leave it at that. Thanks, Lorin for a great time.
The call should come this week. I'll keep ya'll posted.
Xxo's,
Sarah Michelle
It might not even come this week! Which would break my heart... slightly.
But I am looking forward to opening it, and hopefully opening it soon!
Thanks, Bob and Dad for the Birthday Present! I love it:)
Ooookkkay. Time to talk about what happened on the BIG 21 B-Day!
Grandma and Lorraine took Jessica and me out for lunch at Costa Vida's. The place has delicious food. Then I just did what anyone who just became an official 'Adult' does. I hung out. I decide to get my butt up for at least a little while, do some lunges in stretchy pants and whatnot...
So, I'm working out around 6pm because Lorin hadn't called me to settle a pick up time yet, and I am sweating up a slip and slide all over, and at 6:30 I get the call: "Can you be ready in 20 minutes?"
"Uh. Sure." -At this point I look at my sweat stained shirt.. and realize I'd better hop in the shower quick. Good thing I'd recently washed my hair...
So I get ready, and look all cute for our night out.
I come upstairs, and he's waiting (he's a little late, it's about 7:00 when he shows up.. but it's endearing, since he arrives just as I finish getting ready. It's perfect timing, is what it is.) with a cup of flowers. Daisies, my favorite. He's brought me flowers on all but the first date! last date he brought fake flowers. This time he brought 21 daisies in a cup-- the cup, because, let's face it..he's in college and it's just as good as a vase! haha and 21 is the obvious number..;) He explained that he couldn't find a bouquet with 21 flowers, so he bought a plant and cut them off! --pure genius.
Well, then we went outside where I got into his car, and there was a camera waiting. "We're going to document this night of debauchery".
Debauchery, if you bloggers are as unawares as I was of the meaning, I looked up on dictionary.com and it says:
1. excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures; intemperance.
2. Archaic. seduction from duty, allegiance, or virtue.
I think it fit perfectly into our night. and now there's evidence.. evidence to burn;)
Lorin took me to Mesquite. And there were many amazing moments that were had. Some too sensitive for the public eye.
So, I will leave it at that. Thanks, Lorin for a great time.
The call should come this week. I'll keep ya'll posted.
Xxo's,
Sarah Michelle
06 March, 2008
Day of March 6, 2008
In approximately two weeks, I will know with a surety where I'm going to live the next chapter of my life.
It is surreal.
...Did I even spell that word correctly?
No matter. The beginning of this week was interesting. On Sunday, I thought Thursday would take forever to come around. Boy was I proven wrong. My days were so long, yet time sped past me.
I had one meeting after another today, but I made sure that I took the time to do what I needed to do. There was no reason to rush myself. Anything I choose to do deserves the time and effort I put into it, so I'd better do it well.
I took time to visit with a friend right before The Meeting, I gained a greater appreciation for her, and I know we became closer as we talked. She has such a great way of connecting with others, and I really admire that in her.
I was still in my street clothes, so I changed in the Institute's bathroom, hoping no one walked in as my boots and random clothing were flung haphazardly on the counter. I just left them in a nice little pile in there, for me to pick up when I came out. Why would I bring them with me into the interview?
The visit with President Johnson was so comfortable, and the spirit in the room was relaxed, and peaceful. It also fostered a good atmosphere for a chuckle or two.
I am so grateful for him. He is a good man. The interview lasted about a half hour--and I passed!
So.
It's all really happening.
It is surreal.
...Did I even spell that word correctly?
No matter. The beginning of this week was interesting. On Sunday, I thought Thursday would take forever to come around. Boy was I proven wrong. My days were so long, yet time sped past me.
I had one meeting after another today, but I made sure that I took the time to do what I needed to do. There was no reason to rush myself. Anything I choose to do deserves the time and effort I put into it, so I'd better do it well.
I took time to visit with a friend right before The Meeting, I gained a greater appreciation for her, and I know we became closer as we talked. She has such a great way of connecting with others, and I really admire that in her.
I was still in my street clothes, so I changed in the Institute's bathroom, hoping no one walked in as my boots and random clothing were flung haphazardly on the counter. I just left them in a nice little pile in there, for me to pick up when I came out. Why would I bring them with me into the interview?
The visit with President Johnson was so comfortable, and the spirit in the room was relaxed, and peaceful. It also fostered a good atmosphere for a chuckle or two.
I am so grateful for him. He is a good man. The interview lasted about a half hour--and I passed!
So.
It's all really happening.
*yay!*
Love, Sarah Michelle
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